Tere
I am a Japanese guy moved to Estonia late summer last year and now I see the snow and ice finally melting!! Yippee!!
Estonia is such a beautiful country summer or winter. You should consider yourself lucky!! I was not a hardcore cyclist this winter so did not take a ride on snow and I am so glad to see the cycling season is resuming.
I am very much interested in those old road racing and sport bikes from the 1960s well into the 1990s I find time to time in Tallinn. I think most of them are called Start Shosse. If someone knows much of the history (improvements over years, variations, sizes, colour schemes and so on) of such racing bikes which were available in Estonia before independence. I suppose there were some more racing bikes brought from Lithuania and Ukraine and also some Eastern European (Czech, East German etc) made bikes. I have not yet seen Takhion here in Estonia may be such professional bikes were too expensive thus rare. Can someone confirm please?
I would like to get hold of one nice racing frame probably Shosse in so-so condition for a restoration project. If you have such completed projects to show me pictures or have spare parts available please let me know!!
Even a trashed bikes may yield nice dropouts and lugs for collection.
I am not so much enthusiastic about track or TT bikes but more into geared road bikes. Some youngsters convert such collectable pieces into fixed bike just to destroy after doing some trick rides which makes me very sad!!
So far I have not seen much size variations of Start Shosse which means I maybe too short for most of them
I usually ride road bikes around 48 and 50 depending on the geometry. Did they ever manufacture small frame racing bikes for the Estonian market?
Ok so many questions, hopefully someone can answer them
cheers
Sacci
Tere, Sacci!
Welcome to the forum!
I don´t know anything about the sport bicycles. But in Soviet Estonia the ordinary man from the street could buy from the shop only one kind of sport bicycle - Ukraininan Harkov factory´s Start Shosse. And only then, when these were in the shop, as usul they were not. The sportsmen could get other bikes from the clubs and funds, but not from the shops.
There were several Harkov´s models since 1950-s, like V-551 Tšempion (B-551), V-555, 155-411, 156-421 Rekord, ....
In addition there were more comman bikes for tourism, 3 and 4 - speed harkov´s models Sputnik, Turist and Sport (some 7 or 8-speed?).
Some links from Russian forums
http://photo.qip.ru/users/bestoloch72/1277001/71262006/
http://tourist.kharkov.ua/phpbb/viewtopi...a5d60ec600
http://tourist.kharkov.ua/phpbb/viewtopi...a5d60ec600
http://tourist.kharkov.ua/phpbb/viewforu...3ef8187e24
Hi guys
Thanks for the links and a bit of history.
I never realised that the availability of bicycles were so limited during the Soviet time. From the book 100 years of Estonian bicycles or something like that I saw at a bookstore had many photos of sport bikes so I was overly hopeful perhaps.
OK so now I understand that XB3 Start Shosse is from Kharkov factory in Ukraine. Were there any sport bikes made by MMB3 in Minsk, Belarus which found a way to reach Estonia? I only find folding Desna and other utility city bikes which I also like very much but I cannot have them all so I am narrowing down my options to racing bikes for now. I have also seen some youth bicycles from Lithuania with Lithuanian brand and model names mostly named after some birds. Haven't seen any Lithuanian sport bikes in Estonia or if they ever made any...
All the frames or complete bikes for sale seem to be too large for me and my girlfriend. We are 166-170cm range so 50cm frame is just about right and 54 would be too big (even with a short stem the old fashioned deep drop bar will be too far)
From the part compatibility point of view I think Start Shosse from the 80's would be the best option if I want to use 700c wheelset for actually rising them. Do they have 130mm rear dropout spacing or narrower 126mm? Older 5-speed ones have even narrower spacing I suppose.
If anyone has old catalogues or price list in whatever language can you scan and upload them please?
Thanks
Sacci
http://saccithings.blogspot.com
(10-03-2012, 22:12 PM)kass Kirjutas: [ -> ]Tere, Sacci!
Welcome to the forum!
I don´t know anything about the sport bicycles. But in Soviet Estonia the ordinary man from the street could buy from the shop only one kind of sport bicycle - Ukraininan Harkov factory´s Start Shosse. And only then, when these were in the shop, as usul they were not. The sportsmen could get other bikes from the clubs and funds, but not from the shops.
There were several Harkov´s models since 1950-s, like V-551 Tšempion (B-551), V-555, 155-411, 156-421 Rekord, ....
In addition there were more comman bikes for tourism, 3 and 4 - speed harkov´s models Sputnik, Turist and Sport (some 7 or 8-speed?).
Some links from Russian forums
http://photo.qip.ru/users/bestoloch72/1277001/71262006/
http://tourist.kharkov.ua/phpbb/viewtopi...a5d60ec600
http://tourist.kharkov.ua/phpbb/viewtopi...a5d60ec600
http://tourist.kharkov.ua/phpbb/viewforu...3ef8187e24
Soviet economy worked in strange ways, since it was a plan-economy. So don't expect it to be structured like bike industry in the west. Every bicycle factory only had one (or very few) models it produced. And only on to produce road bikes was the factory in Kharkov. And often bicycles were a side product of factory which main product was something totally else.
If you really-really want a small frame from that era, then maybe you should consider a Erelikuas/Kreqzdute (smoke-sparrow in Lithuanian) produced by Vairas factory in Lithuanian SSR. And as you already understood, it's a youth bike. So it's single speed with coaster brake and such. Wheels aren't 700c but instead 533x35 originally, which basically gives you the same outer diameter for the whole wheel as the 26" (599) MTB rim with road tire on it. Also might have problems with installing caliper brakes, derailers and such. But the frame is quite lightweight at least. Especially when compared to Desna and Saljut, which seem to be made by engineers who also made tanks. Don't even think about dropout width, they all have flexible frames from soft steel, so you can just bend it easily.
And someone please correct me if I'm wrong by saying that there weren't such things as bicycle catalogues back then.
Yes, no saleable sport bikes were made in Byelarussia and in Lithuania. Only in Harkov.
And You can´t find a lower frame from soviet production. Perhaps You can find something from Swedish production - Monark or Crescent or smth. Don´t know how easy is to find them and what they cost there but sometime they are available even in Estonia.
http://www.google.ee/search?q=start+%C5%...art=0&sa=N
Isnt racing, but in 80-90's in Minsk factory produced some smaller geared models with 590 wheels.
(11-03-2012, 14:34 PM)oldmoped Kirjutas: [ -> ]Isnt racing, but in 80-90's in Minsk factory produced some smaller geared models with 590 wheels.
Thanks so much for the links to the catalogues and more info on the history. So I may have to give up on Start Shosse if they did not make anything small
my Lithuanian girlfriend confirms that the Lithuanian bikes mentioned were really for children unless they had a large-ish frame made for slightly taller youth.
Yes the MMB3 bikes are all indestructable made with gas pipes or something and in Ukraine they still manufacture them today in horrible colours so revamping them doesn't seem so cool.
According to the Guru Sheldon Brown the 590mm (650A) tyres are hard to find these days so it needs to be swapped with more common 650B without much problems with the brake pads. Going to MTB 26 inch is not so simple as it seems... It may be possible to it a thin and narrow 622mm (700C) wheels and using a short drop caliper brakes (modern road racing brakes) if there is no chainstay bridge or mud guard mounts on the way!
I shall look into the catalogues and study them well so that I will know exactly which bike or frame I should hunt for!!
I am open to any suggestions.
Sacci
http://www.saccithings.blogspot.com
(11-03-2012, 17:58 PM)kass Kirjutas: [ -> ]Just a picture, Latvian "Red Star" factorys bike from the end of 40-s ? and Start Šosse in Riga museum. Speeds from F&Sachs
http://i39.tinypic.com/zn0m06.jpg
Wow that Red Star (isn't it a politically incorrect name?) looks very fast with that paint scheme! Front single rear 3 (?) speed hmmmmmm I have only been to the bike museum in Siauliai in Lithuania where most racing bikes were from the West I recall. There were some cool recumbents though!
For those inter war period and other old big and black bike fans try the bike museum in Saulkrasti, North of Riga. This private museum has a great selection of bikes made in Latvia and loads of gorgeously restored gems. Many old head badges too
Sacci
http://www.saccithigs.blogspot.com
Thanks people who posted response here and those who sent me PM.
As I study the catalogues and check the Ukrainian sites (with dodgy Google translation) the sad fact came up - almost all sporty bikes made in the USSR were from 54cm and up. Too large for me and my girlfriend.
I also considered remove tubes and re-solder into lugs to make a smaller frame but back in Soviet time the tubes were first pinned to the lugs then brass solder was melted into meaning I won't be able to or it will be very difficult to remove tubes
In the West bikes were made more commercially oriented so they had to cover a wide range of demographic groups and made smaller and larger frames both in a small atelier to huge factories. While in USSR those sporty bikes had only four sizes at best...
Here is a multi-lingual version of an export catalogue I came across and fro what I see the exported models had even fewer choices....
http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/V_O_..._1964.html
I will not give up hopes though, there may be some odd limited production models that had smaller geometry. (ХВЗ Спецзаказ)
Does anyone have info on those bikes made by a factory now called Baltik Vairas? Did they ever make sporty bikes?
cheers
Sacci
(12-03-2012, 11:40 AM)sacci things Kirjutas: [ -> ]Does anyone have info on those bikes made by a factory now called Baltik Vairas? Did they ever make sporty bikes?
Nope, they didn't, mainly just the Ereliukas model and later a model or two of folding bikes. Also produced moped engines and such.
Tere
hmmm that is disappointing, perhaps we should start stretching our legs to grow taller!! Seriously thanks so much for your input folks. I now have to concentrate on:
- collect components made by Kharkov (aluminium derailleur, racing hubs, brake levers etc) taken off from mostly Start Shosse. Anyone has a Kharkov pump in good working order?
- keep searching for limited special models in my size (ХВЗ Спецзаказ) road bike not track or TT bike. Perhaps they made Rekord in size 50?
- collect head badges and cast or even pressed dropouts and lugs from old or broken Kharkov frames.
- investigate on East German and Czech made bikes if any racing or sporty types available; no I am not flirting
- investigate on older, 40s-50s racing and sport bikes if they made in smaller size even though compatibility of parts can be more difficult.
- ask those wise and knowledgeable people here and other Estonian bike forums for help
Any other suggestions?
(12-03-2012, 12:30 PM)Etsike Kirjutas: [ -> ] (12-03-2012, 11:40 AM)sacci things Kirjutas: [ -> ]Does anyone have info on those bikes made by a factory now called Baltik Vairas? Did they ever make sporty bikes?
Nope, they didn't, mainly just the Ereliukas model and later a model or two of folding bikes. Also produced moped engines and such.