Sarvbelarussi velmamine
#99

(23-04-2019, 20:10 PM)oltsberg Kirjutas:  
(17-04-2019, 08:23 AM)ahtos Kirjutas:  Kas pole mitte Minski tsikli ketastega seal tegu...
Kataloog näitab tõesti erinevaid koodialgusi, mis seostuvad Minskiga, seega sarviku sidur enamuses tõesti Minski oma. Huvitav on see, et tekstoliitkettad algavad 05-koodiga, ju siis mingi nüanss veidi teine kui tsiklil.

Veeretasime kaasfoorumlasega privaatjuttu, aga ehk pakub see ka laiemale ringile huvi. Videos
alates 0:55 näeb imelikku sidurit, üritasime mõistatada, millega tegu. Peaks olema MTZ 082 küljest, kasutusel ka sellel aparaadil Ju siis saab ka sarvilisele panna, kuigi majanduslik mõte küsitav.

(19-04-2019, 12:08 PM)Gravity Kirjutas:  Samas ei tohi ära unustada, et kuna MTZ motoplokil on märg sidur siis see töötab kõige sujuvamalt soojast peast. Külmast peast kipub kaasa vedama ja käigud lähevad kerge raginaga sisse. Eks õli veab sedavõrd palju kaasa.
Põhimõtteliselt õige, kuigi nö rahuolukorras ulatub õlinivoo pooltelgede tsentrini, seega sidur pikema seisaku ajal üsna kuiv, sest jääb õlitasapinnast kõvasti kõrgemale. Loomulikult pritsib mootori kohapeal töötades läbi vaheseina ava sidurile veidi õli. Alumise võlli (difri vedava võlli) otsas on ka siduri õlitamise tiivik, kuid see pöörleb ainult siis, käik on reaalselt sees ja masin liigub. Seega poolkuiv sidur Smile 

Aga jätame õli ja selle temperatuuri praegu kõrvale, viga on kusagil mujal. Jääb mulje, et sidur absoluutselt ei lahuta Sad  

Muidu olen õlisiduriga aparaatidest sõitnud Minskiga, IŽiga, jänestega Jawa ja päris-Jawaga, aga nende puhul ei meenu, et sidur kuidagi pooletoobine oleks olnud. Küll aga oli paras värdjas lõunanaabrite mopeedide sidur, mis juba oma olemuselt täielikult ei lahutanudki.

Võib olla mind huvitavad kummalised asjad kuid üks lause jäi mind kummitama.

Eelpool oled kirjutanud, et 08Н-1601015 Барабан - 1 шт. ning väidad, et mootor peab 25mm ja mitte 1" toll olema.

Minul on varuosa koodiga 08N-1601015 läbi käinud. Ma ei teagi kas H täht on Niks muutunud või on need erinevad varuosad. N tähega kood oli mul Bel Esti arve peal.

Sidurikoja kood , mida kasutasin oli 06LD.1601021 

082T-1601012, see oli teine korpus tükk

05-1601026 siduri ketaste kood

Igatahes sellele kliendile kellele müüsin varuosa   08N-1601015  läks külge 25,4mm ehk 1" toll mootor.  Fakt.  Sobis ja kõik toimib , ise paigaldasin.

25mm ja 1"toll on ka erineva pikkusega ning krae kohaga.   



Võib olla see info aitab natukene . Ei saa välistada mitut varianti või ebasobivat varuosa ka. 

www.estmotor.ee väikemootorid ja ehitustehnika . Kito tõsteseadmed
Vasta


Sõnumeid selles teemas
Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 14-12-2016, 13:19 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 14-12-2016, 14:08 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 14-12-2016, 14:36 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Marko - 14-12-2016, 15:32 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 16-12-2016, 15:37 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 18-12-2016, 23:26 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 21-12-2016, 08:53 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Suprudko - 21-12-2016, 20:56 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: agaa - 21-12-2016, 21:32 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 22-12-2016, 18:15 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: agaa - 23-12-2016, 19:35 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 24-12-2016, 01:48 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: linnuke - 24-12-2016, 02:26 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 24-12-2016, 17:42 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Suprudko - 24-12-2016, 02:44 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: linnuke - 24-12-2016, 04:16 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Marko - 24-12-2016, 15:41 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 24-12-2016, 17:24 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: MeelisV - 25-12-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 25-12-2016, 10:45 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: MeelisV - 25-12-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: klaave - 25-12-2016, 22:22 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 26-12-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 31-12-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 01-01-2017, 17:28 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 04-01-2017, 13:35 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 04-01-2017, 19:50 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Marko - 04-01-2017, 13:58 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 05-01-2017, 00:23 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 09-01-2017, 17:27 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 09-01-2017, 22:22 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 22-03-2017, 10:38 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: motamees - 22-03-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 02-04-2017, 21:37 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 07-04-2017, 11:21 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Gravity - 18-04-2017, 20:49 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 13-04-2017, 21:39 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 18-04-2017, 15:45 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 18-04-2017, 23:31 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 27-04-2017, 13:58 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 29-04-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Necro - 14-08-2017, 12:06 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 14-08-2017, 11:23 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 16-08-2017, 13:43 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 16-08-2017, 22:24 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 27-08-2017, 23:21 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Gravity - 28-08-2017, 22:57 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 04-09-2017, 13:00 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: motamees - 04-09-2017, 13:15 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 14-08-2018, 22:26 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Meelis2 - 15-08-2018, 09:50 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 15-08-2018, 10:47 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olli - 15-08-2018, 11:01 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 15-08-2018, 11:25 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: qwerty009 - 15-08-2018, 12:29 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Marko - 15-08-2018, 13:38 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 15-08-2018, 16:08 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olli - 15-08-2018, 16:47 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: diesel - 15-08-2018, 17:50 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olli - 15-08-2018, 22:13 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Marko - 15-08-2018, 22:23 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 23-08-2018, 10:02 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Raudpats - 04-10-2018, 18:24 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Gravity - 09-10-2018, 22:21 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 11-10-2018, 13:21 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: viplala - 11-10-2018, 15:06 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 12-10-2018, 12:59 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 28-10-2018, 19:21 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 28-10-2018, 22:36 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 29-10-2018, 10:28 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 29-10-2018, 15:10 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 15-03-2019, 10:50 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olevtoom - 15-03-2019, 11:05 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 15-03-2019, 13:03 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 19-03-2019, 22:33 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: motamees - 20-03-2019, 00:27 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 21-03-2019, 10:05 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 28-03-2019, 21:55 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 06-04-2019, 10:15 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 06-04-2019, 12:42 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 06-04-2019, 20:37 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: aavu - 07-04-2019, 09:26 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 07-04-2019, 09:42 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 07-04-2019, 09:49 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 07-04-2019, 14:58 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 07-04-2019, 17:43 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 07-04-2019, 23:20 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Gravity - 09-04-2019, 12:43 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 09-04-2019, 13:38 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: mardikas - 14-04-2019, 10:49 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 14-04-2019, 17:39 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: mardikas - 14-04-2019, 20:09 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 15-04-2019, 22:58 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 16-04-2019, 00:05 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 17-04-2019, 08:23 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 23-04-2019, 20:10 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Gravity - 24-04-2019, 19:03 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 24-04-2019, 21:56 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Gravity - 19-04-2019, 12:08 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 28-04-2019, 22:53 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Maisalup1 - 24-08-2019, 22:02 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: meli666 - 24-08-2019, 22:24 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Maisalup1 - 25-08-2019, 07:24 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 07-04-2020, 20:41 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 07-04-2020, 21:33 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 07-04-2020, 21:51 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olli - 07-04-2020, 22:05 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 07-04-2020, 23:23 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 08-04-2020, 11:16 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 08-04-2020, 17:37 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olli - 08-04-2020, 19:41 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 09-04-2020, 09:45 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 09-04-2020, 11:01 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 09-04-2020, 12:54 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 09-04-2020, 14:10 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 09-04-2020, 21:45 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 10-04-2020, 13:34 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 10-04-2020, 09:54 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 10-04-2020, 13:26 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 15-04-2020, 18:09 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 23-04-2020, 20:36 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 23-04-2020, 20:39 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 24-04-2020, 10:30 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 24-04-2020, 22:03 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 09-05-2020, 17:53 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 09-05-2020, 20:42 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olli - 09-05-2020, 21:18 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 08-06-2020, 12:35 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 08-06-2020, 20:13 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 08-06-2020, 20:38 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 10-06-2020, 21:28 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 10-06-2020, 22:14 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 11-06-2020, 07:43 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 11-06-2020, 07:54 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: meli666 - 11-06-2020, 19:57 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 11-06-2020, 22:20 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Gravity - 15-06-2020, 20:39 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 16-06-2020, 22:29 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: v6sa - 17-06-2020, 08:07 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 15-06-2020, 22:52 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 17-06-2020, 00:03 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: inc - 17-06-2020, 08:51 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: honkomees - 17-06-2020, 13:23 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 18-06-2020, 13:21 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 19-06-2020, 13:38 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 21-06-2020, 06:59 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 24-06-2020, 21:30 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: v6sa - 26-06-2020, 16:25 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: maisalup - 26-06-2020, 19:20 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 14-04-2022, 19:33 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ronny25 - 15-04-2022, 08:35 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 15-04-2022, 11:14 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: olli - 15-04-2022, 13:54 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 15-04-2022, 14:30 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 16-04-2022, 09:33 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ahtos - 19-04-2022, 10:37 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: v6sa - 19-04-2022, 16:23 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 20-04-2022, 08:00 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 02-05-2022, 08:35 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 02-05-2022, 13:07 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 02-05-2022, 14:04 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Maisalup1 - 03-05-2022, 20:38 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ronny25 - 03-05-2022, 21:48 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: v6sa - 03-05-2022, 22:10 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: ronny25 - 03-05-2022, 22:26 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: v6sa - 03-05-2022, 23:25 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 04-05-2022, 15:08 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: v126 - 04-05-2022, 21:17 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 04-05-2022, 22:13 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 06-05-2022, 18:17 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Mi_H - 04-09-2022, 21:36 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 05-09-2022, 14:35 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: meeterkeere - 07-09-2022, 20:06 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Meelis2 - 23-10-2022, 14:55 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 23-10-2022, 15:25 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: tõnn - 25-10-2022, 10:44 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Meelis2 - 25-10-2022, 14:24 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 25-10-2022, 15:00 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: Meelis2 - 25-10-2022, 21:42 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 24-05-2023, 21:33 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 25-05-2023, 06:36 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 29-07-2023, 07:48 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 02-08-2023, 22:34 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 02-08-2023, 23:05 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 03-08-2023, 08:46 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 03-08-2023, 09:57 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 03-08-2023, 20:31 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 03-08-2023, 21:35 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: huvi5 - 06-08-2023, 13:40 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 24-10-2023, 20:13 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 03-11-2023, 15:47 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 17-01-2024, 19:36 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: lauren - 17-01-2024, 20:58 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 18-01-2024, 08:54 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 20-01-2024, 10:43 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: metsakohin - 20-01-2024, 16:05 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 20-01-2024, 19:25 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 21-01-2024, 10:08 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 21-01-2024, 11:26 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 21-01-2024, 19:34 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: 2715 - 21-01-2024, 23:05 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 26-01-2024, 13:09 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 29-01-2024, 09:26 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 23-03-2024, 21:46 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 24-03-2024, 07:24 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 04-04-2024, 20:07 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: tõnn - 04-04-2024, 21:23 PM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: muska71 - 05-04-2024, 10:44 AM
RE: Sarvbelarussi velmamine - Autor: oltsberg - 05-04-2024, 20:44 PM



Kasutaja, kes vaatavad seda teemat: 1 külali(st)ne