[tykhon]

Does anybody know the exact scheme of two-color Pobeda painting?
I mean original, GAZ-factory allocation of color borders?
Thanks.

[pkuldsaar]

The question has been in my mind for a long time. The answers are various but not true. Some links of two colored M20-s:
http://www.zone.ee/pobeda/pildid/M20%20u...reas.jpg?2
http://gaz20.spb.ru/modif_taxi.htm
http://gaz20.spb.ru/history_3ser.htm

[valdo]

The question has been in my mind for a long time. The answers are various but not true. Some links of two colored M20-s:
http://www.zone.ee/pobeda/pildid/M20%20u...reas.jpg?2
http://gaz20.spb.ru/modif_taxi.htm
http://gaz20.spb.ru/history_3ser.htm

There were quite a few Pobedas colured in two different colours in GAZ factory. I.e. - the original plant-made two-colored Pobeda is quite rare. For the 2nd generation Pobedas (between 1948 and 1955, dense molding) mainly the taxi-cars were two-coloured (with additional taxi-originated symbols). Maybe the taxis were the only two-colored ones produced in Gorkiy plant before 1955. You can see the authentic historical pictures of two-coloured taxis from http://gaz20.spb.ru/modif_taxi.htm . In the Pobeda-booklet issued a year ago in Moscow is the similar picture showing the polishing process of such two-coloured taxi-Pobeda in GAZ plant somewhen before 1955.

For the 3rd generation Pobedas (between 1955 and 1958, rare molding) there in my mind appearded the \"ordinary\" two-colored ones. But its\' total number were although very small in comparison with the Pobeda\'s total production. In my mind, the colouring scheme for the 3rd generation cars remained the same as it was for the 2nd generation taxi-Pobedas (only without the taxi symbols). I have seen some historical photos (from late-1950\'s) supporting this conjecture.

Nowadays, there are a lot of two-colored 3rd generation Pobedas colored by the different scheme (eg. links in quotation and additionally http://tengoretro.sampo.ru/) but they are all two-colored during the restoration process and were originally ordinary single-colored cars. Therefore, I suppose that in GAZ factory there was used only one two-colouring scheme. Up to this time I havn\'t seen the historical photos showing different schemes.

[korgits]

is\'nt there a some factory book/manual where is Black-and-white printed by printing press , where we can see at least color scheme ?

[valdo]

Pobeda spare part catalogues (different issues in 1950, 1955 and 1960; I have 2 earliest ones and have seen the third one) didn\'t show any color scheme. The reason for this is simple - two-colored Pobeda was quite a rare and unique car, which wasn\'t never mass-produced. And the taxis\' colouring scheme was a standard.

You can see the taxis\' color scheme from address http://gaz20.spb.ru/modif_taxi.htm (from a marvellous Artjom\'s Pobeda-thematic webpage). However, you can\'t see there any rear view but I suppose that colour separating lines coincides by the lower colour separating line from a picture presented in http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/tengoretro3.jpg

[tykhon]

Thanks a lot, now this question is much more clear for me: it was one main \"GAZ\" color scheme, and number of amateur variations by owners. As for example of rarely color scheme, I heared about Pobeda, originally painted with military camouflage. In 1946-1948 this vehicle belonged to Kiev town major. Nowadays owner of this car asserts, that it is Pobeda of almost very first series, even without compartment for radio. Camouflage layer is lowermost of three others.
BTW with what colors Pobedas were ever painted? To my mind, it is unlikely that soviet industry produced widely range of paints for cars - maybe 10-15, no more.

Couple more questions - not about colors, but I\'ll ask both in this thread, in order not to increase amount of non-estonian messages at your forum.
1. Does anybody know, how first Pobeda speedometer (band type) looks like?
2. What tyres were used for installation at GAZ-72? Not Ya-248, afaik, originally ones had \">>>\" footprints.

[korgits]

the first pobeda speedomeeter looks like this http://www.pilt.ee/i/p/2/82/0124882284a8e7.jpg ( picture taken from www.pilt.ee/pkuldsaar )

The gaz 72 had a gaz 69 tyres because the technology was taken from gaz 69

[tykhon]

Photo is wonderful (indeed, as all photographs by Priit). But I asked about even more old type of speedometer, non-serial built, installed on some pre-production cars. It had horizontal scale, band-type, not rounded, as was later put into mass production. That device maybe looks like speedometers of old Chevrolets or GAZ-24, but I\'ve never seen its photo.

Well, what was the name of GAZ-69 tyres? ;-)

[valdo]

BTW with what colors Pobedas were ever painted? To my mind, it is unlikely that soviet industry produced widely range of paints for cars - maybe 10-15, no more.

6 colors: white, grey, light-blue, brown, light-brown, green. I hadn\'t met more colors.

[valdo]

Does anybody know, how first Pobeda speedometer (band type) looks like?

For the very first Pobedas, i.e production before 1947 or so-called 1st generation Pobedas, there was mounted a speedometer taken almost exactly from early GAZ 51. It was not the ordinary speedometer familiar from the latest GAZ-51A (with round scales) since 1956 but it looked like a speedometer of ZIS-150 having all rectangular-shaped scales behind a common glass. For Pobedas with such a speedometer it was spoken that there wasn\'t place for a radio.

I.e. the statement of Korgits for a speedometer is not true for the very first Pobedas, but it is true for early mass-production Pobedas. I suppose that there was produced only some hundred Pobedas with the old type speedometer. I havn\'t seen this car, I affraid that no one of them hasn\'t preserved at all.

Somewhen before 1948 (probably already in 1947), i.e somewhen the mass-production appeares, there appeared the new-type round speedometer and clock with a place of radio. The radio hole was covered by the trap-door bearing the script \"Avtozavod imeni Molotova\".
This type (design) of speedometer has remained unchanged until the 1955 when for the 3rd generation Pobedas there was designed a newly-look-liked speedometer.

Therefore, the speedometer for 1st generation (excluding very first cars) and 2nd gerenation Pobedas was the same. It was charaterized with the rectangular-shaped light-green numbers on the red background. But the red background color wasn\'t quite good and bleached quite fast. It was changed by the years into the ordinary white or yellow-white tone. For more than 95% of speedometers I have seen, the red has completly bleached and only for a few well-preserved ones the red has retained its\' original color.

You can see examples of 1st and 2nd generation speedometers from http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/gages.jpg (note that there only thr round ones are from 2nd generation, the rectangular one is from 3rd generation), from http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/gearbox.jpg and also from http://www.pilt.ee/i/p/2/82/0124882284a8e7.jpg .

For comparison - 3rd generation Pobeda\'s speedomeeter is presented http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/clock.jpg

[tykhon]

Thanks, Valdo, for such detailed story. Its very sad, that all 1st generation speedometers irretrievably lost. I\'ll try to write inquiry to GAZ plant museum, maybe they have photo or something.
Do you know, that second clock at http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/clock.jpg - also Pobeda type?

[valdo]

Thanks, Valdo, for such detailed story. Its very sad, that all 1st generation speedometers irretrievably lost. I\'ll try to write inquiry to GAZ plant museum, maybe they have photo or something.

As I\'ve read many times from a Russian Pobeda forum http://webforum.land.ru/wb.php?board=8793 it\'s quite hard to get any information from GAZ museum and archive. Therefore, you can try, maybe it will successfull this time.

I wrote, that I doubt that the first Pobeda items were equipped with an ordinary GAZ 51 old-type speedometer (before 1947 or 1948). However it itself is a little bit rarity (was mounted in GAZ 51-s only until 1955) but I have certainly the photo of it taken by myself. Maybe it is published somewhere in internet too.

[valdo]

Do you know, that second clock at http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/clock.jpg - also Pobeda type?

I\'m not sure. I\'ve never seen such a clock for 3rd generation Pobedas. But for some color types it was quite possible

[tykhon]

As I read at russian Pobeda forum, that someone from there is going to visit GAZ. I\'ll try to ask them to look at museum exposition and maybe to make some shots.
btw: http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/bicolor.jpg

[tykhon]

Now I\'m collecting information about Pobeda interior design. Especially I\'m interested in color schemes and textile types, were used in Pobeda salon. As far as I noticed, plastic could be three colors: light-yellow (ivory), dark-brown (chocolate) and blue-gray (sea-grey). The last I saw more light and more dark - were it 2 different colors or variation in one (incorrect handling, sun affect, bad manufactured plastic, or even plastic, repainted by ownres). Maybe there was some other colors, rarely seen?
As for fabric - what contemporary mark of textile can you suggest to use instead of original one? What color combinations were prevalent? How it compared with color of Pobeda?
Thanks in advance.

[valdo]

As far as I noticed, plastic could be three colors: light-yellow (ivory), dark-brown (chocolate) and blue-gray (sea-grey).

I have seen one more color - a little bit darker than an ivory, a little bit towards to the orange color. I have a little bit damaged central part (radio net) in this color.

Mayby it\'s not a real separate color but just a variation of an ivory (because of \"specifics\" of current technological party etc). My practice sees that a Soviet car production includes quite often such kind of occasionities and surprises...

[tykhon]

Yes! I have seen such color too, for example here: http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/ae20.jpg Such wide range of ivory versions, to my mind, was due to \"wonderful\" soviet technology. Really, there was no reason to put in mass production two so close colors.
I obtain interesting picture on Pobeda interior - GAZ poster with samples of material. http://gaz20.spb.ru/img/obivka.jpg But I\'m not sure with colors - original photo was with badly shifted white balance. BTW, there shown only 2 color schemes. Was it enough for six body colors?

[tykhon]

Colleagues, its very interesting for me to get your opinion about Pobeda colors: Valdo said, that there were 6 colors: white, grey, light-blue, brown, light-brown and green. Can you select that colors in RGB palette? I understand, that it\'s very approximately, but...

I\'ve tried to do this with plastic, analyzing photographies. My results:
#E6C5A0
#5E4C45
#9498A2

[tykhon]

Well, never mind.
Another question, guys. Can anybody make photographs of Pobeda front wings - both modifications - M20 and M20V? In best case - 3 pics of each: from top, side and front. It\'s very interesting to compare and to notice differences. As I heared, headlights of M-20V were moved a bit forward in comparison with m-20.
Thanks in advance.

[tykhon]

Calendars 2006 with Pobeda:
http://gaz20.spb.ru/download_calendar.htm
Thanks.