[andybee]

But can You tell something more exactly, how often Yuo usually act, how many members do You have and so on? We here are looking for our own format in Estonia, what to do and how to act. And we do it under the leading of Valdo!

So, I have read already this

CHF, Cycle Historic Förening (Club)



Established in 1997. Formed by enthusiasts for older bicycles, from the pre high wheelers period to contemporary objects of special interest.

Close to 300 members all over Sweden, some in the neighbouring Scandinavian countries.

Annual Cycle historic day and jumbles in a small scale within other technique historic events.

Member publication is the 28 pages magazine VELOCIPEDEN 4 tms/yr. Contains articles and ads from older magazines, reportages from national and international bicycle events, themes as penny farthings, transport bicycles, manufacturers history, brands history, restoration guide lines. Frequent pages as: buy/sell, new members with collections, meetings, our own club arrangements or others we take part in such as exhibitions, cultural events, movies etc.

Members list with present collection and interest distributed annually.

---

In may i will host a ca 30 km long ride in the northern parts on the landscape Skåne

Hej!
De är ingenting om det i kalendern på din hemsidan.
Är det offentlig evenemang eller endast för klubbmedlemar?

Yes, there are nothing about it in Your calender? By the way, Your site (http://www.cykelhistoriska.se) is very good, the best that we can find about swedish bikes, but it is not good enough! Haven´t seen any progress there, do the things go on?

Hi Oldmoped and Kass!
First of all, the info about the trip is under the menu "sydsvanska sektionen", this is not availiable in the english version, strangely enough... This section is the south swedish and danish department. Anyway, i have not planned the trip i detail, i have to ride it first during the spring... it will probably start around where i live i the village Nävlinge, situated near Vinslöv (between Hässleholm and Kristianstad) and then go around the countryside back home again.

Kass, regarding the club , what do you exacly want to know? We have a board and we have board meetings where we plan meetings and economy and so on.

The homepage is frequently uppdated, maybe not so often. What improvements do you want? We used to have a forum, but it was hacked, and we closed it down.... I would like a functioning forum and more detailed info about bikes, such as pictures from catalogues, parts and so on.. But for the moment, there´s only one person who is in charge of the homepage, and he has limited time.
Actually, i have thought a lot about the homepage, and will discuss it the next board meeting.

[kass]

Hej!
Okey, lets forget the question about the Club! I saw that You have 300 members there. As You see, we have here some 3 men who are interested in old bikes - Valdo, Oldmoped and Heiks.
Are the 300 clubmen all active members or is it as in our forum, where are more than 5000 members in the list but the real situation is little bit different?
About Your homepage - no need to do some imptovements for me!
But I (as You) would like "...more detailed info about bikes, such as pictures from catalogues, parts and so on..." too. And of course - better Gallery, technically better and more informative! (A good thing is, that pictures are in estonian, so we can look and uderstand!)

As You said, you hoped to hear about our swedish bikes in english and to see pictures about them. And as You se, it´s not as simple thing. We don´t speak english, we are lazy, we are not interested in old bicicles and we haven´t a lot of interesting swedish bikes. ( But perhaps I am telling only about myshelf...)

From the period before 1940 we have in Estonia mostly german, swedish, latvian, english and estonian bicicles. Some french, belgian, austrian, czech, russian, danish (hamlet) and others ones. As i already wrote - almost all what we know about them (and about swedish bikes) is in this forum, but of course not really all. If You will find something intersting in the forums topics then perhaps we would give some better info and some talk about them in english. As I understood You are interested mostly in swedish bikes? We havent exact info what kind and what brands of bikes we have before 1940, but we have one list of bikes what were confiscated by soviet red army from the people of the island Saaremaa (Oesel or as it is correct, close to Sweden ). There are not many swedish bikes in this list and this seems strange but perhaps (my favorite word - perhaps!) on the mainland Estonia there was the % of swedish bikes bigger or the swedish bikes were hided better from the russians because they were so good and costed a lot of money???
I put here the adress of the list for You.

http://eag.vanatehnika.ee/ewrattad-saaremaa1942.html

[kass]

So, what do You think about this transport - bicicle?
http://forum.automoto.ee/showthread.php?...pid=278382

[andybee]

Hej!
Okey, lets forget the question about the Club! I saw that You have 300 members there. As You see, we have here some 3 men who are interested in old bikes - Valdo, Oldmoped and Heiks.
Are the 300 clubmen all active members or is it as in our forum, where are more than 5000 members in the list but the real situation is little bit different?
About Your homepage - no need to do some imptovements for me!
But I (as You) would like "...more detailed info about bikes, such as pictures from catalogues, parts and so on..." too. And of course - better Gallery, technically better and more informative! (A good thing is, that pictures are in estonian, so we can look and uderstand!)

As You said, you hoped to hear about our swedish bikes in english and to see pictures about them. And as You se, it´s not as simple thing. We don´t speak english, we are lazy, we are not interested in old bicicles and we haven´t a lot of interesting swedish bikes. ( But perhaps I am telling only about myshelf...)

From the period before 1940 we have in Estonia mostly german, swedish, latvian, english and estonian bicicles. Some french, belgian, austrian, czech, russian, danish (hamlet) and others ones. As i already wrote - almost all what we know about them (and about swedish bikes) is in this forum, but of course not really all. If You will find something intersting in the forums topics then perhaps we would give some better info and some talk about them in english. As I understood You are interested mostly in swedish bikes? We havent exact info what kind and what brands of bikes we have before 1940, but we have one list of bikes what were confiscated by soviet red army from the people of the island Saaremaa (Oesel or as it is correct, close to Sweden ). There are not many swedish bikes in this list and this seems strange but perhaps (my favorite word - perhaps!) on the mainland Estonia there was the % of swedish bikes bigger or the swedish bikes were hided better from the russians because they were so good and costed a lot of money???
I put here the adress of the list for You.

http://eag.vanatehnika.ee/ewrattad-saaremaa1942.html

We have the same problem when it come to active peoples, i estimate that about 10% of the members are active in the club...

Regarding your swedish bikes, when searching this forum for keywords lik "rootsi" hermes, husqvarna, vega, crescent and so on, i think they look very nice and interesting. When it comes to Nymans made bikes, im surprised to see that you seem to have a lot of bike made around 1939, according to my calculation. This were the the last bikes made with the individual mascots on the top of the front fenders. The last models before the 1940 models where made around the frame no 1217000-1218000, i have bikes from 1939 and 1940 in this serial range where the 1940 model has a no 1218xxx something. You seem to have a lot of bikes with serial no around 1115xxx- 1200xxx. The no in the russian list is also around this numbers. I don´t know if you now how the 1940 model bikes look, but generally they have a chromed zink die cast
molding on the top of the front fender and often silver painted wheels and and mudguards. All of Nymans bikes got this chorme molding, so the earlier types where each brand had their own mascot disappered, sadly...
Check this link for example of swedish mascots: http://www.hvatomas.se/Husqvarna%20marke...cottar.htm
I attach a picture of a 1940 crescent, you can compare it with Valdo to see the different details.

---

So, what do You think about this transport - bicicle?
http://forum.automoto.ee/showthread.php?...pid=278382

The only thing i can say for sure is that is not a swedish bike! I not so good at other than swedish bikes, i´m sorry.. Though it´s a nice design!

[kass]

Yes, we have "afterwar" swedish bikes too in Estonia, we got them in 1990-s as a humanitarian help. We got a lot of swedish army bikes M42 too. My every - day transport is after - war Monarks Svalen (with russian Harkov wheels, saddle from italian training - machine etc...).
And yes, we had the bikes with the first fender mascots. And we have a great need of this mascots, to Hermes, Monarc, Vega mostly!
By the way - the first "oldbike´s frame" what I found from the dumping ground some 25 years ago was Monark Scout. We have on original Scout here too, even the grey Trelleborgs (or how it right?) were before the owner changed them. I have some 3 or 4 Hermes frames but as most of the frames, they are without wheels and torpedos.[/b]

---

So, what do You think about this transport - bicicle?
http://forum.automoto.ee/showthread.php?...pid=278382

The only thing i can say for sure is that is not a swedish bike! I not so good at other than swedish bikes, i´m sorry.. Though it´s a nice design!

We think, that may be a Danish one. (the frame nr with numbers and letters and the "Schionning & Arve" tyre), but from what period? Before or after WWII?

[kass]

Ladys Crescent, 1926?
A member of our forum Illi123 has such a nice and complete Crescent. We don´t know the histori of this bike - since what time it is in Estonia.
As I have told, usually the frames havn´t wheels but this one has all but the frame number is not authentic, somebody in some reason has made a new one. Wheels are "ordinary" 635 mm.
Pictures are not the best, but ...
http://i42.tinypic.com/33boi13.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/4t60it.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/9uud6q.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2lvfhgn.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/aynl74.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/xd946.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/x4rgo7.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/i3vuc5.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/pw0zm.jpg

Any comments?

---

Next item, is it Swedish one?
http://i40.tinypic.com/1z4gyrk.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/1yrar5.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2po1a40.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/vdd7pz.jpg
The distance between the holes of the emblem is 47 mm.
http://i41.tinypic.com/9r3wol.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2nh2b2u.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2144a9x.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2cyfr6b.jpg

The hub was NOVO with 622 "ordinary" rim.

[andybee]

Hi Kass, the Crescent seems to me appering quite in original shape. I don´t know what you mean that´s not authentic? Do you mean the number or the frame? Anyway, i think both the frame and the no appears original. When Lindblads made Crescent, before Nyman bought them and moved the production from Stockholm to Uppsala, their frame no is confusing, i have this bikes and frame no:
Crescent 1925 258913
Crescent 1929 LC6070

My guess in that its possible that Nymans made Crescent to Lindblads even before the got bought up. The frame no with letter LC.... apperars in different shapes, like LE, LF, LD and so on. No one seems to know any more that that means and why the didn´t have just numbers.

The crescent you are showing have the original wheels, crank, handlebar, etc, the pictures is not so good, but i assume that the mudguards are original to. The saddle is strange, often they where marked with Lindblads logo (wings and letters). But i does i kind of "swedish" look...One can´t be sure, they often bought from another supplier if they where out of stock.

The chainguard is of heavily cast aluminium, not the thinner type that appeared later. I have a catalogue from 1928 for comparison, i will lokk if i can scan it or take picture.

The other bike seems very swedish to, the front mudguard is of the type that was popular around late 20´s to 1934, then they appered with similar design at the back mudguard also and they had broader sides, i mean the the extension on the sides, look at my red Crescent 1936. The NOVO hub also indicate a swedish bike. The chainwheel is of typical design in cheaper brands, since the big ones often had trier own specific design.But i have never seen that type of ornament on the frame, and never the lamp holder too. The frame no suggest a smaller factory. I will send it to the CHF homesite and see if anyone recognize the frame ornament. Very interesting!

[kass]

Hi Kass, the Crescent seems to me appering quite in original shape. I don´t know what you mean that´s not authentic? Do you mean the number or the frame? Anyway, i think both the frame and the no appears original. When Lindblads made Crescent, before Nyman bought them and moved the production from Stockholm to Uppsala, their frame no is confusing, i have this bikes and frame no:
Crescent 1925 258913
Crescent 1929 LC6070

My guess in that its possible that Nymans made Crescent to Lindblads even before the got bought up. The frame no with letter LC.... apperars in different shapes, like LE, LF, LD and so on. No one seems to know any more that that means and why the didn´t have just numbers.
.................................
The saddle is strange, often they where marked with Lindblads logo (wings and letters). But i does i kind of "swedish" look...One can´t be sure, they often bought from another supplier if they where out of stock.
!

Hej och tack!

About the Crescent number...If You take a better look You will notice that there has been another number, maybe even some letter (A?). If we will take off the painting perhaps we can see the real authentic number. The 1777 is home - made one.
What meaning have the letters LC, LE,...? L - Lindblads, C, E - years???

Yes, the saddle looks a little bit "too modern and new" to me, but we have Swedish bikes in Estonia with saddles like that but fron 30 - s, I speculate. Perhaps it has changed ?

Do You know haw the bigger Swedish makers used nickel and chrome, when they started to use chrome insted of nickel? (in Germany we suppose it was nearly in 1930, how were things in Sweden?)

The other bike looks very Swedish of course, in Finland they made that kind of bikes too, I don´t know about Norge and Danmark? And I don´t know, is the Novo hube on this bike authentic or has replaced later.

One army bike, without number and front lable holes, looks "very swedish" but I think - a Finnish one??? But how it has appeared to Estonia? (Have heard about one more similar bike here). Black color overpainted green, no nickel/chrome.
Take a look!
http://www.wehrmacht.pri.ee/foorum/phpBB...php?t=5836

[andybee]

Here´s pictures from the 1928 Crescent catalogue, this differs from the one you send pictures of, Kass, since it´s got the "skirts" on the front fender. I also attach a pictue of my 1925 Crescent. The chainguard is original, this painted types were used before they also had aluminium ones on the gent´s bikes. The womens bikes had it long before.

I now saw that i loaded the wrong picture, here´s the right one! The other was a Crescent 1937, but they are pretty similar. In this picture there´s a Cerscent 1938 in the backgrounds, this bike has sometime crashed because the frame is warped....

[magnusk750]

Hej!

Just wanted tro say welcome. I'm not into bicycles, but I'm a swede living in Estonia since 11 years. It's a cool country, sometimes frustrating, sometimes buzzling, sometimes laid back in a cool way. As you can see from the answers there are quite a few who know some swedish, lot's of people are working in Sweden.

Keep on biking!

[andybee]

Hej!

Just wanted tro say welcome. I'm not into bicycles, but I'm a swede living in Estonia since 11 years. It's a cool country, sometimes frustrating, sometimes buzzling, sometimes laid back in a cool way. As you can see from the answers there are quite a few who know some swedish, lot's of people are working in Sweden.

Keep on biking!

Hi Magnus, thank you for welcoming me! Do you speak estonian good? Maybe you can translate things i don´t understand?

[tolmuahv]

Hello Magnus and welcome here!
Nice pictures and beautiful bikes indeed! I own men's Hermes from the end of 30.-es. It is equipped with painted mudhubs, although the wire holding the hubs seemes to be stainless. Unfortunately can't tell about wheels, since they are missing. Do you know about finish of the relief ornaments on Hermes- were they painted in contrasting colours?

[andybee]

Hello Magnus and welcome here!
Nice pictures and beautiful bikes indeed! I own men's Hermes from the end of 30.-es. It is equipped with painted mudhubs, although the wire holding the hubs seemes to be stainless. Unfortunately can't tell about wheels, since they are missing. Do you know about finish of the relief ornaments on Hermes- were they painted in contrasting colours?

hi! the mudguard holders were made of stainless steel from ca 1933. The ornaments were always black with gold filled in the holes and pinstriped around the edge of the ornament. State the frame no situated under the crank, stamped in the frame. its probably a no over 1000000. what colour has your bike?

[tolmuahv]

hi! the mudguard holders were made of stainless steel from ca 1933. The ornaments were always black with gold filled in the holes and pinstriped around the edge of the ornament. State the frame no situated under the crank, stamped in the frame. its probably a no over 1000000. what colour has your bike?

Thanks, I appreciate that information!
My bike is in black, as they usually were in Estonia , with golden stripes. I will take a look at it tomorrow for serial number. It is still waiting for renovation and has some missing parts.

[kass]

I have 3 identical low-frame Hermes "herrcykel" frames, all have been black. One with the number 1089xxx, one without original number and I don´t know the 3 -ds number at the moment.

[valdo]

I have 3 identical low-frame Hermes "herrcykel" frames, all have been black. One with the number 1089xxx, one without original number and I don´t know the 3 -ds number at the moment.

Most on Hermes bicycles spread in Estonia were painted in black and had chromium-plated mudguards and rims. I have about 3-4 remains of these bicycles, unfortunately all unrestored and in bad shape.

Beside of these Hermes bicycles I have a well-preserved green-painted Hermes - year 1939, frame no 1217982. Look http://forum.automoto.ee/showthread.php?tid=37796 for pictures.

This bicycle has original paint, original chrome etc. What is interesting, is paint which is a metallic paint (already in 1939!).

Generally for Estonian market Swedish bicycle factories produced black bicycles with chromium-plated mudguards and rims. At first I thought that this bicycle is produced for inner market, but it was not - it has rims for beaded-edges tires - this standard was in Sweden inner market already forgotten in late 1930s but was in deep use in Estonia until 1940s. All the Swedish bicycles I have met which have been made for Estonian market, have rims for beaded-edge tires.

[andybee]

Kass, the frame no 1089xxx suggest a bike made in 1938 and/or as a 1938 model. Regarding the colour, the standard colour was black and due to tradition and the fact that the colours often faded and was hard to repair if damaged, made black the dominating colour throughout the 30´s. If you see 10 standard bikes from the 30´s, my gut feeling tells me that 7-8 of them are black. When it comes to racing bikes and training racers etc, they are NEVER black!
Crescent had their own colour for racing bikes, orange, and Hermes where red, but you could get them in other colours, but NOT black! 

I have only seen one single blue Crescent, and that is the one I own myself, a 1938 model. Red are more common, and I have seen a couple of green ones.

Valdo, your green Hermes is stunning and very beautiful! There´s no record which year Hermes first offered metallic colours, but in the 1937 catalogue Crescent offered so called polychromatic colours, you could get them in blue and green. The blue colour are probably the same as my blue Crescent, although ages takes the edge of the metallic luster.

I strongly suspect that Hermes also came with polychromatic or metallic colours this year.
I heard once that the car maker Hudson where the first vehicle maker with metallic colours, they used fish scales to make the bright look! 

One funny thing regarding your Hermes is that the pinstriping on the rims and mudguards don´t look like they normally do on a Hermes. The pinstriping on a Hermes consist of a gold line with a red line in the center, (on black bikes) one at each side of the rim or mudguard. Yours have a space between the black lines and the goldlines. On Crescent there would be only be gold lines, one thinner and one broader, one at each side. Interesting! But I do have seen this before, I don’t know why it´s not the same on all bikes.

I guess that the white field in the back mudguards been repainted, since the use to pinstripe over the white part at the factory.

When it comes tor rims, the type used on Swedish bicycles are known as Westwood rims. They where used already in turn-of the century bikes, i have a Husqvarna from 1902 with these rims. “Vulst” or beaded-edge tires where not popular or common. After the late 10´s or early 20´s I have never seen, nor heard of vulst tires on Swedish bikes, not even mentioned in catalogues.

Chrome plated mudguards never occurred on 30´s bikes in Sweden as far as I know. However, on some sporty types of bikes, sometimes chrome plated “flat” rims occurred, often with a broad pinstriping in the center of the rims in the same colour as the bike.

Stainless steel rims and mudguard appeared on later 30´s Hermes and on some special Crescent model, but I have never seen on in real life, only a picture of a 30´s Hermes in light green with a special frame and stainless rims.

Have anyone of you heard or seen a bicycle also made by Nymans, a brand belonging to the Lindblads company selling Crescent, it´s called Drott?

I have a 1938 ladies tourist racer, with a beutiful front mudguard mascot in the shape of a knight on a horse. Wondering if this bike where ever sold in Estonia?

[tolmuahv]

State the frame no situated under the crank, stamped in the frame. its probably a no over 1000000. what colour has your bike?

Yes, its number is 1185014. Pedals have two yellow reflectors on both sides. Actually one of them, another is missing aswell.

[andybee]

State the frame no situated under the crank, stamped in the frame. its probably a no over 1000000. what colour has your bike?50

Yes, its number is 1185014. Pedals have two yellow reflectors on both sides. Actually one of them, another is missing aswell.

look at the other hermes here ,1184829,very close in number from yours! search "hermes" in this forum. I have no doubt that your bike is from 1939. The original pedal are kind of rektangular in shape. They have two triangual holes cut out on each side. There is also a "N" in a circle stamped between the holes.This type of pedal was called "reform" and where very popular on different brand around 1900-1950's.

[kass]

Generally for Estonian market Swedish bicycle factories produced black bicycles with chromium-plated mudguards and rims.

One of my Hermes frames (without audentic nr.) had painted narrow mudguards with the "sides", the first one looks

http://i43.tinypic.com/11jx0mo.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/mb7091.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/s482m9.jpg

Another had narrow painted "ordinary" rear mudguard with only narrow gold stripes (I must check it out , may be I lie and it wasn´t from Hermes?).

I have 2 Vega ladys frames, one has chrome plated mudguards, the other has painted ones.
One 1939 Vega nr 1194670 with painted mudguards and rims
http://jalgrattad.wordpress.com/category/vega/


About the Drott - haven´t seen and heard abuot them in Estonia.

About Westwood rims - our "vulstfelges" were called westwood - type too, the older type was called "ordinary" - type.